When does curing stop?

AllDayToker

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
What's up people,

So I've been wake n bakin' and really stoned, so I've been thinking about stuff this morning. Today, curing.

So I know how to properly dry and cure, and I understand the reason behind those techniques. I just have a few questions, or thoughts about curing itself.

One question is about the humidity in the jar and keeping the jar closed. So you can maintain your rH in your cure zone 60-65%, even after opening and closing it, is it still curing every time I close it, or has the curing stopped and now I'm just maintaining moisture in the jar?

Does curing only take place when the jar is unopened for long periods of time? I just don't see the difference except letting smell out, if I can maintain that "cure zone" rH %.

Let me know what you guys think, open for discussion, I'm just interested in learning more.

Stay high, bongsmilie
ADT
 
kinddiesel

kinddiesel

Well-Known Member
I think it only chances mold. I done see any difference. cured or just dry for 6 days. I guess you stop curein the weed as soon as you start to smoke it , lol
 
AllDayToker

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm.... So if it stays between 60-65% too long, which they consider is a good range for curing, it could get mold? I thought this was the point where to want to leave it to cure for long periods of time.

So once you crack the jar, even if you can keep it above 60%, it's done curing? I would think if you popped that lid back on quick it would continue to cure.

I know I defiantly can tell the difference between dried bud, cured for a week bud, and cured for a month bud, but that's not what I'm really talking about. I'm talking about the cure itself.

Time to roll another one up and think harder :lol: :eyesmoke:
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
I will quote a post I made about curing, it doesn't answer your question directly but I will elaborate.

k0ijn said:
The thing is that the idea and science behind curing marijuana is directly adapted from the science behind curing cigars.
What you said is correct and translates into why the curing stops ~55% RH.
For cigars it's obviously mainly focused on the improvement of flavour and aroma but the basic principles translate.

By curing cannabis you allow carboxyl groups in various compounds to degrade and release CO2, thereby leaving behind the decarboxylated active cannabinoids, which increases the potency (assuming the cannabis was grown and harvested correctly).
Chlorophyll also dissipates during the dry & cure which in turn improves flavour and aroma.

What you want is a steady slow cure from 65% RH to 55% RH inside the curing 'container' (the cannabis can be stored safely for long periods @ 55% RH).
The basic principles is that the more care and perfection you can carry out in the cure the better product you end up with.
Click to expand...
Edited to stop argument.

With regards to your second post, cannabis can develop mold if it's kept/stored in an unventilated area (high RH can also contribute to accelerating the growth of mold), this can happen during growing, drying & curing.
The principle is the same, you have to keep the area well ventilated and within a reasonable RH range to deter the mold from forming.
I would say that most people who have problems with mold have so because they do no ventilate properly, some also have trouble with burping curing jars correctly and if left on a high RH these jars can easily and quickly help to develop mold.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
If I understand your question right....

There are 2 aspects to the "cure"
The bud
And the trichs

The trichs cure with oxygen and time, popping the seal and letting in o2 is as necessary to the cure as moisture to break down the herb
I don't like this term ferment .we are not creating alcohol or anything of the sort..those aren't the processes at hand

The enzymes present in the mj break it down.and at higher temps/moisture it happens much faster..for terps to cyclicize and alter oxygen must be present

You could cure in the open if you kept it moist enough..you cannot effectively cure for example using a 62% pack and never letting in oxygen

Your herbs potency(thca) declines exponentially based on its halflife.. room temp in a sealed container has a half life of 35 days....around 120 days will effectively decarb it....which hurts potency as it gets decarbed upon vaporizing..any form of decarbing is seen as degradation if not for edibles...

Just like a decarb your trichs won't alter indefinitely..6 months for max flavor or so and no more will be being made..terps are produced out of reactions with gpp etc and terpenoids from oxygen and denaturing

Closing the jar stops your terps (terps meaning the whole array alcohols esters acids etc etc) from evaporating and let's the o2 mix....hope I helped...kinda just rambled
 
AllDayToker

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
Alright, yeah that helps a little bit. I did read that quote somewhere else I remember.

So curing isn't actually about keeping it between 60-65%, it's the process of bringing it down from 65% to 55%, am I understanding that right?

So keeping them between that 60-65% won't prolong curing or give it a better cure?


Yeah my main question is if I keep it in that range if I can open and close the jar as I wish and the bud would continue to cure, or would it stop the first time I crack it open. And how long you can really keep it in that range without it becoming an issue.

Like you said, with proper ventilation, it shouldn't be an issue, but is it still curing every time I close it if I never let it get to that 55% point?
 
AllDayToker

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
If I understand your question right....

There are 2 aspects to the "cure"
The bud
And the trichs

The trichs cure with oxygen and time, popping the seal and letting in o2 is as necessary to the cure as moisture to break down the herb
I don't like this term ferment .we are not creating alcohol or anything of the sort..those aren't the processes at hand

The enzymes present in the mj break it down.and at higher temps/moisture it happens much faster..for terps to cyclicize and alter oxygen must be present

You could cure in the open if you kept it moist enough..you cannot effectively cure for example using a 62% pack and never letting in oxygen

Your herb(thca) declines exponentially based on its halflife.. room temp in a sealed container has a half life of 35 days....around 120 days will effectively decarb it....which hurts potency as it gets decarbed upon vaporizing..any form of decarbing is seen as degradation if not for edibles...

Just like a decarb your trichs won't alter indefinitely..6 months for max flavor or so and no more will be being made..terps are produced out of reactions with gpp etc and terpenoids from oxygen and denaturing

Closing the jar stops your terps (terps meaning alcohols esters acids etc etc) from evaporating and let's the o2 mix....hope I helped...kinda just rambled
Click to expand...
That makes since a lot of since to me, thanks. Yeah I'm experimenting with those rH packs, so far they have worked well.

If I'm getting this right. So if I use those packs, and make sure new air comes in every week or every two weeks or whatever. Would this prolong the curing process? Can I keep those packs in there, open and close the jar regular and the bud will continue to cure until it's just a certain age?
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
I don't sweat the weed no more than it has to. The purpose of sweating is to bring the moisture uniformly back into the bud and then dried to be done again. This way the bud dries in a uniform fashion. When the bud doesn't sweat anymore it's done and can be sealed away. Do not over sweat your buds. You won't be doing yourself any favours.
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
So, after cannabis has been dried can it be stored for extended periods of time in jars with 62% humidity packs without molding? Would the jars have to be vacuum sealed? At what RH is it safe to vacuum seal cannabis in jars?
 
ProdigalSun

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
BWG707 said:
So, after cannabis has been dried can it be stored for extended periods of time in jars with 62% humidity packs without molding? Would the jars have to be vacuum sealed? At what RH is it safe to vacuum seal cannabis in jars?
Click to expand...
This exactly, is what I came here hoping to learn.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
"For the most part, Molds are obligate aerobes. This means that they require oxygen (not specifically "air") to complete their metabolism.

However, many molds have the ability to reproduce (grow) at very low concentrations of oxygen gas. Organisms which are obligately anaerobic can not grow in the presence of oxygen. An example of an obligate anaerobe is the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. Examples of obligately aerobic microorganisms include molds and Pseudomonas species of bacteria (the bacterium which causes your lunch meat to get slimy).

Other types of microorganisms can grow both in the presence or absence of oxygen gas. These organisms are classified as facultatively anaerobic. Examples include yeast, Salmonella, and Escherichia coli.

It is very difficult to remove all of the oxygen from a chamber (bread box). Most vacuum packaging can only reduce the oxygen concentration to approximately 0.5%. This is still enough oxygen for some molds to grow. We rarely see moldy soda because there is no oxygen in the can. The atmosphere has been replaced with carbon dioxide. Some food manufacturers have used this information to package foods for longer shelf life in what is called modified atmosphere packaging (MAP). This is a situation where all of the air is removed and the atmosphere is replaced with a specific concentration of gas such as CO2, N and H2 (carbon dioxide, nitrogen or hydrogen gas). What you have suggested is what the French refer to as sous-vide (under vacuum). If you had an airtight container and a 2-way valve you could remove as much air as possible with your pump. If you had an oxygen scavenger or could introduce a neutral gas such as CO2 then you might be able to reduce the oxygen content low enough to inhibit mold."



Materials suitable in vacuum are materials showing very low rates of out gassing in vacuum. The requirements grow increasingly stringent with the desired degree of vacuum achievable in the chamber. The materials can produce gas by several mechanisms. Molecules of gases and water can be adsorbed on the material surface ..therefore materials with low affinity to water have to be chosen.. Materials may sublimate in vacuum. Or the gases can be released from porous materials or from cracks and crevices..or byproduct of bacteria or breakdown of starches etc



So to conclude ........sort of........not really
But no you cannot just vac seal your bud..
 
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
Once the buds are sufficiently dry and cured (smokable), you can store them indefinitely in jars. I still have some buds jarred up that I harvested over a year ago. They're still stanky, smooth, and potent; no mold issues whatsoever.
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking about vacuum sealing mason jars with 62% Boveda Packs, after the buds have been dried and cured. Looking for the best way to store buds for a year or more.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
SpicySativa

SpicySativa

Well-Known Member
The boveda pack in a vacuum probably isn't a good idea. It's designed to maintain 62% RH at ambient temp and pressure. Who knows what they'll do if you mess with the pressure.

If they work how I think they do, they will release more moisture into the air as the vacuum increases; effectively keeping the RELATIVE humidity constant. despite the relative humidity staying the same, there will be more moisture in the air than there would be at ambient pressure. Then when you open the jar, you will get condensation as all that moisture drawn into the air at high vacuum returns to the liquid phase.
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
SpicySativa said:
The boveda pack in a vacuum probably isn't a good idea. It's designed to maintain 62% RH at ambient temp and pressure. Who knows what they'll do if you mess with the pressure.

If they work how I think they do, they will release more moisture into the air as the vacuum increases; effectively keeping the RELATIVE humidity constant. despite the relative humidity staying the same, there will be more moisture in the air than there would be at ambient pressure. Then when you open the jar, you will get condensation as all that moisture drawn into the air at high vacuum returns to the liquid phase.
Click to expand...
Thats interesting, never really thought about that. I think I'll do so research. Thanks for the info.
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
Each Bóveda packet consists of a specially prepared saturated solution of pure water and natural salt. This saturated solution is contained within a water-vapor permeable reverse osmosis membrane. Within closed desktop humidor Bóveda maintains a predetermined level of (RH)by releasing or absorbing purified water-vapor—as needed—through the membrane.
Boveda Packs are only to be used once, they are not refillable. They become very stiff when the contents are spent.
These amazing packs last around 2months in an average humidor.


I thought I had given the answer good enough when talking about materials suitable for vac.....or I would have answered..my bad
You shouldn't vac weed or boveda packs...you will literally vac out the flavorful terpenes esters alcohols etc ...also the boveda pack will not work properly
Click to expand...
i heard that BP can be recharged with moisture. I tried it by putting the packs inside a sealed container with distilled water, without letting the BP touch the water. After about 24hrs the BP are pliable and not stiff anymore. They seem to be holding the moisture just fine. And if left exposed to air they will eventually go stiff again. I read about on this forum I believe. Any feedback about this?
 
BWG707

BWG707

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
"For the most part, Molds are obligate aerobes. This means that they require oxygen (not specifically "air") to complete their metabolism.

However, many molds have the ability to reproduce (grow) at very low concentrations of oxygen gas. Organisms which are obligately anaerobic can not grow in the presence of oxygen. An example of an obligate anaerobe is the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. Examples of obligately aerobic microorganisms include molds and Pseudomonas species of bacteria (the bacterium which causes your lunch meat to get slimy).

Other types of microorganisms can grow both in the presence or absence of oxygen gas. These organisms are classified as facultatively anaerobic. Examples include yeast, Salmonella, and Escherichia coli.

It is very difficult to remove all of the oxygen from a chamber (bread box). Most vacuum packaging can only reduce the oxygen concentration to approximately 0.5%. This is still enough oxygen for some molds to grow. We rarely see moldy soda because there is no oxygen in the can. The atmosphere has been replaced with carbon dioxide. Some food manufacturers have used this information to package foods for longer shelf life in what is called modified atmosphere packaging (MAP). This is a situation where all of the air is removed and the atmosphere is replaced with a specific concentration of gas such as CO2, N and H2 (carbon dioxide, nitrogen or hydrogen gas). What you have suggested is what the French refer to as sous-vide (under vacuum). If you had an airtight container and a 2-way valve you could remove as much air as possible with your pump. If you had an oxygen scavenger or could introduce a neutral gas such as CO2 then you might be able to reduce the oxygen content low enough to inhibit mold."



Materials suitable in vacuum are materials showing very low rates of out gassing in vacuum. The requirements grow increasingly stringent with the desired degree of vacuum achievable in the chamber. The materials can produce gas by several mechanisms. Molecules of gases and water can be adsorbed on the material surface ..therefore materials with low affinity to water have to be chosen.. Materials may sublimate in vacuum. Or the gases can be released from porous materials or from cracks and crevices..or byproduct of bacteria or breakdown of starches etc



So to conclude ........sort of........not really
But no you cannot just vac seal your bud..
Click to expand...
What about putting oxygen absorbing packets into the mason jars then vacuum sealing? Any thoughts, pros/ cons? I read a few posts about people doing this? Was curious what your opinion is on this? Thanks.
 
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