The truth is in the Genetics.....not the name on

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NevilleS.2013

Active Member
JH, SSH, Diesel and Sage were IMO all the same cutting, the ones that won the Cups. Seeds produced from these plants are often sold under the same name. I can tell you that you wouldn't want the batch that the NL5HzC x SkHzC came from. It was a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss. Even 5CskC1 (new abbreviation) had a Diesel/Piss smell, and if it wasn't so quick and resinous (thank God for NL5) and so god awful strong, it wouldn't have been looked at. (I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings here)
In a draw full of NH and NL5C1 and NL5C122, it wouldn't get smoked at all. There are ways to improve it and experimental batches were made.
I'm trying to tell you that you are talking to Rip van Winkle, waking up after an unpleasant dream. Don't ask me what happened while I was asleep, do you want me to make shit up? I can tell about what I did prior to 2005.


I don't believe in secrets when it comes to pedigrees. How is anybody going to learn if they are fed lies. The test of a Master, is not how many students he has, but how many Masters he makes!
If you bought seeds from The Seed Bank. Say NL5 x HzC. You know that this is a Hybrid made from the Haze Brothers male line and the Northern lights female line. You know this because I didn't change the name Haze or Northern Lights. These were the names given to me when I bought the seed.
If you bought Early Pearl x Skunk#1, the same applies. As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want with these seeds, except change history. If you want to inbreed Nl5Hz and put F2 seeds on the market, why not you paid for them. You didn't by Chi P variabilis and call it NL5Hz, you paid full price. If are saying that you have bought Seed Bank seed and tell the truth about the ancestry and what you have done (F2), I don't have a problem with you. If you made a 4 way with the EPxSK1 and produce excellent hybrids well the same applies. You may in effect be doing advertising for me or you might get doing what people thought I should have done or people might think that the SK1 one was the biggest influence and chase that up in the future. It's all out there and people can draw there own conclusions. But if you say that you have developed these strains from your own collection, then you're a liar and a cheat.

The owner of a seed co. in Amsterdam in the '90s was the first person I knew of who was using the name Diesel and THAT plant was NL5HzCxSK1HzC. What people have been calling Diesel since then, I don't know anything about. If you want to know who that was, do your homework
 
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Vincent VonBlown

New Member
Um yes, most breeding is taken from original seed bank stock. Which would have been seemed to have been described as Mexican Sativa, Afghan Indica, Thai. That were crossed to each and back and forth dropping out different cuttings. That have been termed elite, further breeding inline back and forth back crossing and cubing. Which brings us to where we are now, more or less.

One other note: Don't forget Sensi sell ruderalis, always has...
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
NevilleS.2013 said:
JH, SSH, Diesel and Sage were IMO all the same cutting, the ones that won the Cups. Seeds produced from these plants are often sold under the same name. I can tell you that you wouldn't want the batch that the NL5HzC x SkHzC came from. It was a "one off" in a batch full of skinny cat piss. Even 5CskC1 (new abbreviation) had a Diesel/Piss smell, and if it wasn't so quick and resinous (thank God for NL5) and so god awful strong, it wouldn't have been looked at. (I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings here)
In a draw full of NH and NL5C1 and NL5C122, it wouldn't get smoked at all. There are ways to improve it and experimental batches were made.
I'm trying to tell you that you are talking to Rip van Winkle, waking up after an unpleasant dream. Don't ask me what happened while I was asleep, do you want me to make shit up? I can tell about what I did prior to 2005.


I don't believe in secrets when it comes to pedigrees. How is anybody going to learn if they are fed lies. The test of a Master, is not how many students he has, but how many Masters he makes!
If you bought seeds from The Seed Bank. Say NL5 x HzC. You know that this is a Hybrid made from the Haze Brothers male line and the Northern lights female line. You know this because I didn't change the name Haze or Northern Lights. These were the names given to me when I bought the seed.
If you bought Early Pearl x Skunk#1, the same applies. As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want with these seeds, except change history. If you want to inbreed Nl5Hz and put F2 seeds on the market, why not you paid for them. You didn't by Chi P variabilis and call it NL5Hz, you paid full price. If are saying that you have bought Seed Bank seed and tell the truth about the ancestry and what you have done (F2), I don't have a problem with you. If you made a 4 way with the EPxSK1 and produce excellent hybrids well the same applies. You may in effect be doing advertising for me or you might get doing what people thought I should have done or people might think that the SK1 one was the biggest influence and chase that up in the future. It's all out there and people can draw there own conclusions. But if you say that you have developed these strains from your own collection, then you're a liar and a cheat.

The owner of a seed co. in Amsterdam in the '90s was the first person I knew of who was using the name Diesel and THAT plant was NL5HzCxSK1HzC. What people have been calling Diesel since then, I don't know anything about. If you want to know who that was, do your homework
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Interesting post Neville and have to agree. I dont understand why people would try and claim they invented strains when they didn't. Breeders should just state the lineage of hybrids they create.
 
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echlectica

Well-Known Member
Neville is my hero. If the OP is really Neville Shoenmaker then we should all be honored by his presence here.
 
RedMan420

RedMan420

Active Member
echlectica said:
Neville is my hero. If the OP is really Neville Shoemaker then we should all be honored by his presence here.
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Agreed, if the OP is Neville then the man is a wealth of knowledge:) Neville's breeding was ground breaking for all of us growers and breeders alike.
 
Omgwtfbbq Indicaman

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman

Well-Known Member
This is news to me, i though the more contrived the name the better it is, i guess that super silver sour diesel haze isnt the bestest thing around
 
jessica d

jessica d

Well-Known Member
yes every sick grower, smoker deserves to get the truthfull history of strains when paying $200 for 10 seeds. not all strains provide medical benefits for certain ailments. many ppl with ms or schizophrenia cant smoke sativas without negative effects and so on. if it wasnt for med use breeding and growing would be alot stiffer penalty. honesty is best
 
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Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
echlectica said:
Neville is my hero. If the OP is really Neville Shoemaker then we should all be honored by his presence here.
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no disrespect, but why should we all be honored by his presence or any breeder for that matter? studying history, as he states, all it showed was that he did what most are doing now, traveling around the world collecting genes crossing them and calling it there own.
tbh, if anyone gets credit it should be the original farmers that we will never hear of or know about that has created or cultivated these gems before we even knew of them.
funny how some breeders get slammed for carrying on with "someone elses" but others are suppose to be praised for self ingratiation.
 
smellzlikeskunkyum

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
this thread is interesting to me. i hint a taste of opiates-and/or-anger on the mind>? maybe just me? sry if i offend anyone.

people are all of a sudden racing to make sure they have their names plastered to the "original"

personally i dont care who the heck created the strain...
but, if the person with the original is either a jerk or just isnt doing something right, people will(and should, i think) go else where.

i care alot more about WHAT the strain is. so i agree with that part of the original post. Its nice to know the lineage.

but the breeder's need to do a better job of inbreeding and stabilizing genes. Now a day's you go buy a couple packs of something like NL x Hz and u get a multitude of different phenotypes. It shouldnt have to be like that.

That crap makes it harder for people to get the proper medication... someone who NEEDS an indica, does not want to end up with a sativa pheno, and vice versa.
 
smellzlikeskunkyum

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
honestly if u get down to brass tax, its all GREED that screws it up for us.

if the cost of the pack truely reflected how stable the genetics were, and how valuable medically, for every single pack we would be in an entirely different world in breeding.

instead some of the most expensive packs will even throw out hermies, much less stable genes. and some of the cheaper stuff gets over-looked when sometimes its what people want.
 
smellzlikeskunkyum

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
perhaps another thing to point out:

OP was right about the Master/student thing.
Some breeders would be producing better products if they would narrow down what they are dedicated to working on and brining to market.

Maybe its the whole game of it.... i mean how easy is it for someone with ONE VERY good strain to get their stuff sold at a seedbank before a breeder that has a bunch of strains to choose from? i really dont know, but id geuss its hard to make a company outta one or two strains nowadays.

in the end its the strain itself that makes the difference to the world. Serious seeds has been awfully successful with the ak-47, and they continue to be. perhaps it helped that they werent flooded with tons of different projects?
 
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echlectica

Well-Known Member
smellzlikeskunkyum said:
perhaps another thing to point out:

OP was right about the Master/student thing.
Some breeders would be producing better products if they would narrow down what they are dedicated to working on and brining to market.

Maybe its the whole game of it.... i mean how easy is it for someone with ONE VERY good strain to get their stuff sold at a seedbank before a breeder that has a bunch of strains to choose from? i really dont know, but id geuss its hard to make a company outta one or two strains nowadays.

in the end its the strain itself that makes the difference to the world. Serious seeds has been awfully successful with the ak-47, and they continue to be. perhaps it helped that they werent flooded with tons of different projects?
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I'd like to know how easy or dificult it would be to get a place like serious seeds to carry one or two good strains froma breeder? I really would like to know that. I wonder where you'd even start, after having the seeds of course. Who would you even talk to. How would they know if your shit is legit or not, or would it even matter since there seems to be so many problems with breeder seeds these days?
 
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althor

Well-Known Member
echlectica said:
I'd like to know how easy or dificult it would be to get a place like serious seeds to carry one or two good strains froma breeder? I really would like to know that. I wonder where you'd even start, after having the seeds of course. Who would you even talk to. How would they know if your shit is legit or not, or would it even matter since there seems to be so many problems with breeder seeds these days?
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It is 100% about marketing. Ask Barney's Farm and Arjan if you dont believe it.
 
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brimck325

Well-Known Member
i see guy's buying strains that they have the genetics to make. i dont get it, you think these pollen chuckers, chuck better? spending huge coin per year just to say they have the newest, bestes strain...hahaha...i buy maybe 5-7(closer to 3-4) packs a year, i mostly buy for taste now, as i can up the potency if needed.
 
Pipe Dream

Pipe Dream

Well-Known Member
I personally feel that if you worked a hybrid or a line than you can call it whatever you want as long as it is what you are representing and the name isn't already taken. I could hack some pollen from 2 plants I grew from seed and a breeder could have the same cross but the offspring would be totally different. F2ing something and then renaming is kind of shady but at least the breeder's strain won't be grouped in the same category as the original if they are shit. It would be nice if all breeders were upfront and thorough with their genetic history, but half of them are using clone onlies that are of unknown genetics or not even the real deal.
 
Pipe Dream

Pipe Dream

Well-Known Member
brimck325 said:
i see guy's buying strains that they have the genetics to make. i dont get it, you think these pollen chuckers, chuck better? spending huge coin per year just to say they have the newest, bestes strain...hahaha...i buy maybe 5-7(closer to 3-4) packs a year, i mostly buy for taste now, as i can up the potency if needed.
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You can never recreate a strain exactly. The difference between a pollen chucker and a good professional breeder is plant selection, stability of the breeding parents, and selection of seeds through trial and error. Even if a breeder used different parents from the same batch of seeds, they would be different. Most breeders don't do any of this but even so one breeders Blueberry x White widow is going to be very different then another's.
 
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Smakki

Active Member
Its not only the name on it, it's the original genetics..ever got a more indica leaning pheno from NL5xHz like that?
NL5xHz alt 2.jpgNL5xHz alt 4.jpgNlHz.jpgBud.jpg

Well it doesn't pop up that often, but when you see it, you suddenly see it everywhere..take the Chem #4..a dubious story on where it came from, well it most certainly is a descendant of NL5xHz.
Dutch Passion Isis is just a refined (and selfed S1) of a NL5xHz Pheno as people say, though they don't claim otherwise..

A proper F1 from Sensi e.g. can't be recreated without the original breeding stock.
imho there's nothing wrong with pollen chucking, but just slapping a fancy name on it afterwards won't make it a well-bred stable line like it is, when you got it from the original breeder. All that work did't went in there for no reason.
 
K

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
so wait...if i grow two plants and they are known varieties from known breeders.....is it ok for me to cross these and then sell them under a new name calling this my creation..you know if i had breeding skills i mean lol...or is this frowned upon? if not then how do new varieties occur?!
 
jessica d

jessica d

Well-Known Member
very pretty smaki. ya amazing what phenos u can find if you run alot of beans. That is why Mrnice and dj have such stable genetics ime. A good eye always helps but to me it takes alot of space, time and 100's of plants.
 
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