sensible bank regulation

N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
tokeprep said:
The pound of silver is irrelevant. Whatever it was worth, that's what the currency bought 300 years ago; that's the purchasing power a person 300 years ago actually had with that currency. It's substantially less than purchasing power today.

You want to take silver and today's market price as if it's relevant to past valuation or some alternative for what modern currency could be worth. It is not. Modern currency could not possibly be made of gold or silver because it would be completely impractical.
Click to expand...
The pound of silver is TOTALLY relevant. Thats the reason its called the "pound" note.

By your definition of surviving paper money, If I can find a specimen of Chinese currency that died out 1000 years ago, its still considered a surviving currency, even though it has no tender value.

Do 300 year old pound notes that say the bearer will be paid a pound of silver still legal tender too? If they aren't then they aren't the same pound note.

i think we both know the answer to that question. The current pound note has only been around for less than 50 years. Not 300 like you claim. Just because they call it the same thing doesn't mean it is the same thing.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
tokeprep said:
Modern currency could not possibly be made of gold or silver because it would be completely impractical.
Click to expand...
Not only could it, it has and still is being used as currency every day in every country in the world. In fact every central bank holds most of it as ........money!

If it were impractical then how was it we used it up until 42 years ago?

$3,100 weighs the same as a troy ounce of gold, but takes up 4 times as much space.

Gold is actually easier to carry than cash in the largest denominations.

You do realize that there are still silver coins in circulation today? Not at all impractical.
 
T

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
The pound of silver is TOTALLY relevant. Thats the reason its called the "pound" note.

By your definition of surviving paper money, If I can find a specimen of Chinese currency that died out 1000 years ago, its still considered a surviving currency, even though it has no tender value.

Do 300 year old pound notes that say the bearer will be paid a pound of silver still legal tender too? If they aren't then they aren't the same pound note.

i think we both know the answer to that question. The current pound note has only been around for less than 50 years. Not 300 like you claim. Just because they call it the same thing doesn't mean it is the same thing.
Click to expand...
Except that you could have held a constant value in pound notes over the whole 300 years period, had you been able to live through it, notwithstanding the severing of precious metal links. You're only interested in buried box full of pound notes and valuing what that would be worth today, as if it should be meaningful. It's not.
 
T

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Not only could it, it has and still is being used as currency every day in every country in the world. In fact every central bank holds most of it as ........money!

If it were impractical then how was it we used it up until 42 years ago?

$3,100 weighs the same as a troy ounce of gold, but takes up 4 times as much space.

Gold is actually easier to carry than cash in the largest denominations.

You do realize that there are still silver coins in circulation today? Not at all impractical.
Click to expand...
Every central bank holds most of it as money? Central banks hold a fraction of the world's gold. Far more (most) is held as jewelery.

Yes, when the world's government's come together to fix the price of gold, a gold standard is practical. Expect them to pry it out of your hands, though, so they have enough. There were far fewer people in the world 42 years ago.

The fact that silver coins are in circulation today does not mean that coins could practically be made of silver and circulated today. Given the industrial demand for silver and the growth in population, it would be impossible, driving silver prices up artificially in what could only crash down as a speculative bubble.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
The US government doesn't issue dollars, the Federal Reserve Does. Says so right on the dollar bill, says its a FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE. If it were issued by the government is would say UNITED STATES NOTE on it.

The US Government issues Coins. The banks issue credit and paper dollars. The federal reserve is a bank, not a government entity, Congress has no oversight when it comes to the Fed.
Click to expand...
yes. the congress surrendered it's most important power to JP morgan the warburgs and the rothschilds. that doesnt change the fact that constitutionally they have the obligation to oversee our currency, even if they choose not to.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
kpmarine said:
The federal reserve and congress may both disagree with you on that. http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_oversight.htm

The Federal Reserve System--including the Board of Governors and the 12 Federal Reserve Banks--is subject to a number of levels of oversight to help ensure that the System operates as a prudent, well managed, and effective public organization.

General
The Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress. Board governors and staff testify before Congress frequently to discuss issues within the Federal Reserve's purview. For example, in 2008, governors and Board staff testified 35 times before Congress. During the first quarter of 2009, governors and staff have testified 12 times. Board staff also meet with Congressional staff to brief them on topics related to the Federal Reserve's operations and future direction.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) has broad authority to review and audit Federal Reserve activities.1 The legislative limits on the GAO's access to the Federal Reserve System are very specific and stated in the law.2 The GAO conducts reviews and audits at the direction of the Congress and also under its own authority. These engagements cover a wide variety of Federal Reserve activities. As of March 31, 2009, there were 20 GAO engagements underway, 17 of which were initiated by Congress. During 2008, the GAO completed 15 similar engagements.

The Board of Governors orders an annual external audit of the financial statements of the Board and the Reserve Banks.3 The current independent auditor is Deloitte and Touche.4 Each Reserve Bank publishes its audited financial statements, and the Board of Governors publishes the audited combined Reserve Bank financial statements and the Board's financial statements in its annual report to Congress. The Reserve Banks and the Board comply voluntarily with the internal control requirements of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. The external auditors also perform an evaluation of internal controls over financial reporting.
Click to expand...
the actual oversight that the congress ACTUALLY has over the fed is limited at best.

the fed makes reports, the congress accepts their word for it, and every now and then the congress says "Are you SURE thats how the accounts are doing? cuz that seems a little fucked up bro..." and the fed says "no really... we lost all your money, honest..." and thats that.

there never has been, and probably never will be an actual audit of the fed's books, just the fake internal bullshit jerk off session that bucky thinks is so cool.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Barter is not ridiculous. The basis of human society/ free trade can go in two directions. Either people decide in a consensual way, without an authoritarian third party intervening what to barter with and what has value as a designated currency or other parisitic types (bankers, bureaucrats, legislators) decide. I prefer that people decide, you apparently prefer to pledge allegiance to the blood suckers.

The basis of human society if it is to be peaceful is that consensual exchanges are better than coerced and fiat exchanges. I assumed you knew this, I guess I gave you too much credit. I suspect you are not a real doctor.
Click to expand...
barter only works when i have what you want NOW and you have what i want NOW too.

currency and money allow me to sell my surplus for cash, and use that cash months or even years later to buy something i may not actually need right now. it also allows merchant to trade markers of value in one place for goods, taake them elsewhere and trade the goods for more markers of value, so even if i dont want a pile of beaver pelts i can still sell a trapper a frying pan and some flour.

barter doesnt work for shit. thats why money was invented.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
cologrower said:
This is not accurate. After Glass-Stiegal passed there was a big change in the mortgage business. It started with that law because until that law passed it was illegal to do what they were doing.
Click to expand...
no, tokie is right, fannie and freddie have been bundling and selling off mortgages since they were founded. thats the way they are designed.

however now any asshole can do it. you dont even have to be a bank, in califronia theres hundreds of "mortgage originators" who dont do shit but collect signatures and sell them off. lotsa people have been ablkke to fend off foreclosure by demanding the foreclosing authority produce the deed. they usually cant produce shit, since nobody owns the actual mortgage, they just own a little piece of it, and a little piece of a thousand others.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
barter only works when i have what you want NOW and you have what i want NOW too.

currency and money allow me to sell my surplus for cash, and use that cash months or even years later to buy something i may not actually need right now. it also allows merchant to trade markers of value in one place for goods, taake them elsewhere and trade the goods for more markers of value, so even if i dont want a pile of beaver pelts i can still sell a trapper a frying pan and some flour.

barter doesnt work for shit. thats why money was invented.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your efforts at providing me a history lesson. I'm aware that a portable note can be a good substitute for lugging around a side of beef or a chest of doubloons. My opposition isn't to "money" per se, I oppose the built in inflation of the bogus "money" used today. Hoarding cash will probably disappoint you though as it seems to depreciate pretty quick.

I like Barter, and think in many instances it is very effective. Some would say money was invented to ensure that bankers could get rich using a fractional reserve scheme and not for the convenience of the lay people.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
tokeprep said:
Except that you could have held a constant value in pound notes over the whole 300 years period, had you been able to live through it, notwithstanding the severing of precious metal links. You're only interested in buried box full of pound notes and valuing what that would be worth today, as if it should be meaningful. It's not.
Click to expand...
no, not doing that at all, perhaps you forgot what it was you were trying to argue, That the English pound note is the exact same currency used 300 years ago, it isn't even close. I win you lose, get over it.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
no, not doing that at all, perhaps you forgot what it was you were trying to argue, That the English pound note is the exact same currency used 300 years ago, it isn't even close. I win you lose, get over it.
Click to expand...
Tokenprep considers losing as winning, he'll keep espousing his bullshite and eventually just stop posting when he can't even explain his point, let alone prove it.

Sure he thinks gold futures can be followed through to delivery, LOL!
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
tokeprep said:
Every central bank holds most of it as money? Central banks hold a fraction of the world's gold. Far more (most) is held as jewelery.
Click to expand...
You think some guy with some jewelry holds more than 33000 tons of it as money and not jewelry?

link please, this I GOTTA see you try and prove this one. Hell I wanna see any single individual who has more than a metric ton. go ahead the onus is one you since you have claimed that jewelry is being held as money by someone in excess of what the central banks own as money.

http://www.gold.org/government_affairs/reserve_asset_management/central_bank_gold_agreements/

 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
the actual oversight that the congress ACTUALLY has over the fed is limited at best.

the fed makes reports, the congress accepts their word for it, and every now and then the congress says "Are you SURE thats how the accounts are doing? cuz that seems a little fucked up bro..." and the fed says "no really... we lost all your money, honest..." and thats that.

there never has been, and probably never will be an actual audit of the fed's books, just the fake internal bullshit jerk off session that bucky thinks is so cool.
Click to expand...
They cannot audit the Fed, the fed is private and cannot be compelled to provide operating secrets to the government. Is why the FOIA cannot get you anything from the Fed.
 
T

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
cologrower said:
This is not accurate. After Glass-Stiegal passed there was a big change in the mortgage business. It started with that law because until that law passed it was illegal to do what they were doing.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. That doesn't mean banks wouldn't have sold loans off had they been legally barred from packaging and selling securities.
 
T

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
no, not doing that at all, perhaps you forgot what it was you were trying to argue, That the English pound note is the exact same currency used 300 years ago, it isn't even close. I win you lose, get over it.
Click to expand...
Then you just don't understand. The change from silver to fiat is irrelevant. The currency did not become worthless upon the change, which apparently is what you're advocating. Those pounds are still buying things even though there's no precious metal link.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top