modular overkill led striplight build

SSGrower

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
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Troubleshooting “Yellow” Corn

Troubleshooting “Yellow” Corn In my travel across South Dakota and southern Minnesota recently, the corn crop is generally in the V5 – V6 stage. The crop is growing very rapidly and looking good! …
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Working through some issues I am having with corn I found this article. Snip from it

While sulfur deficiency is supposed to show up first on the upper new leaves and nitrogen deficiency should show up first on the lower older leaves, symptoms in the field don’t always look obvious like they do in text books.

Lacking the advantages of nutrient, media and tissue sampling we hobbyist and (and comercial growers not using these pro techniques) are only going to find the light by a stroke of luck or considerable trial and error. That or you just gotta have a really gren thumb.
 
cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
for me its the intesity first then the spectrum.

would love to find the magic frequency who make our plants happy, but so far i just had been partially successfull.
While i also think that the red light is harder during veg for the plants, somehow, even it has less energy then blue.
More blue especially below 450 is worth a try.

i have used samsung 3000k 80cri before and they behave the same i mainly switched as i had reliability problems with my chinese 288s and also mounting was easier for me using strips, beside that i could use a higher amount of diodes then with 288 boards.

youre right with the argument that if electrical heating is required some could consider cmh or even hps for sure.
you may have to bite the bullet and invest some of the saved energy for heating if you want the spread.
Often heat is a problem for many, my summer grow wont be possible with a HPS f.e.and i had/have almost spot on temps just by using nature.

My happiest vegging plants are at my kitchen window, atm at 50ppfd, higest i measured where about 100ppfd, while they will get more from time to time (seldon).
The light is rich in blue, high Kelvin as its mostly overcast, they could clearly take more light and are too lanky, otherwise not much to complain about. light is very soft, going through a strong diffusor.
P1040054.JPGP1040056.JPG
My 6500k veglight do also stress the plants, if i go too high with the watts or the plants come to near to the 2 cobs in the ceiling of the box.
And i dont need much watts to provoke that, 25W and i need to be carefull ,box is small and very low.
(I should pimp the box with some strips for a better distribution, just too lazy for it atm)

am also not unhappy with the buds who developing in my flower tent can only compare to other led setups with different color temps and 400W/250W HPS on a old magnetic ballast.
I can for sure say that i have buds developing in regions of the tent, corners etc. where i would only had larf with a 400W HPS, quality, size, density is also much better, but HPS times are decades ago.
Next round i will limit myself a bit more with the PPFD, when i went over 900 it was clear what will happen.
 
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Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
I completely understand frustration with the prospect of needing to put more money into supplemental heating, especially when you're switching to LED for the increased efficiency and cost-savings. But as @cobshopgrow pointed out, the reverse is also true - having to add supplemental cooling with HID can be a problem for some too. But if you run the numbers and find that you're spending more overall to run LED and heating, without getting a commensurate yield, HID is obviously the more economical choice. Or add more blue (no personal experience with that, but people whose opinions I trust do promote this strategy).

However, it is certainly possible to veg perfectly happy and healthy plants under 3000k. Plenty of examples of robust veg growth under 3000k. But if it's going to cost you more to get your temps up than it will to add blue (or run HID), I get it.
 
grotbags

grotbags

Well-Known Member
DukeFluke said:
Ok here's a basic question then based on that. We see a lot of good solid grows through veg AND flower with certain models of LED. When I was researching the China LED market, kingbrite/spiderfarmer/Meiju etc, I was coming across a lot of positive reviews and solid grow journals with plants growing right up close to and even through between the bars of the fixtures with no negative effects.

What are the key differences between these fixtures and the Blux?

Spectrum is one. They come with deep and far red. But some don't and still seem to perform.

They also often come with a diffuser in the form of a plastic covering over the diodes. Could that be making a big difference to how the diode performs for cultivation? Again, some don't so..

They're using the samsung chips. Is the spectral output different enough - maybe more in the green/blue - to promote plant health without the need for extra heat and attention?
Click to expand...
as for the main difference between your blux strips and kingbrite/spiderfarmer/meiju ect stuff you listed is your blux diodes are 3000k 90cri, the peak wavelength/hump in your blux 3000k90cri is at 630nm/red.
the others lights you metioned are 99% likely to be 80cri which has its peak at around 600nm/orange/red. they maybe even use a 3500k or 4000k diode which will add more % of blue, then they add the 660 and 730 back in to bump the red.
is this making a difference :????.

as for diffuser ect im not convinced. sure plants love diffuse light but it should already be diffuse enough using a strip build with the amount of diodes your have.

yep its possible that a samsung diode and your blux diode will differ slightly in spectral output even if both are 3000k 90cri, they will both have their own slightly different phospher mix/coating that will change the final spectrum.
you would have to compare a graph of both to see?, but they will be very close and i doubt enough to make a difference?.
 
grotbags

grotbags

Well-Known Member
DukeFluke said:
So are you finding the results get better in flower?

I mean overall are they still out performing the HID you moved from?
Click to expand...
yer and thats the thing the same plants that get shitty at 300umol in veg will take take 1000+umol in flower no issue at all and look generally happier, something changes when they go into flower.(i dont use the 50/50 3000k, 5000k mix for flower though)

as for overall performance flower wise its awsome, im more than happy with plant health/growth/weight, ive gave away my dimlux setup i wont be going back to hid...not unless there is a mini ice-age or something...
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
These 2 x RQS Royal Gorrilla clones are in a 4ft x 4ft tent under 2ft strips, lm301b, deep red 660nm and far red 730nm diodes at ~ 270 watts.
900 umols/m2/s down the centre. Left side edge of plants get around 700 umols and right side of plants which get a boost from the 2 x R2T Boards, 3000K white uv, blue, red, far red at 75 watts each get ~ 800 umols.
That's pretty intense light compared to a 315 CMH but there doesn't appear to be any issues.
Temperatures in there at this time of year are ~ 25°C lights on ~ 15°C lights off.


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grotbags

grotbags

Well-Known Member
cobshopgrow said:
for me its the intesity first then the spectrum.

would love to find the magic frequency who make our plants happy, but so far i just had been partially successfull.
While i also think that the red light is harder during veg for the plants, somehow, even it has less energy then blue.
More blue especially below 450 is worth a try.

i have used samsung 3000k 80cri before and they behave the same i mainly switched as i had reliability problems with my chinese 288s and also mounting was easier for me using strips, beside that i could use a higher amount of diodes then with 288 boards.

youre right with the argument that if electrical heating is required some could consider cmh or even hps for sure.
you may have to bite the bullet and invest some of the saved energy for heating if you want the spread.
Often heat is a problem for many, my summer grow wont be possible with a HPS f.e.and i had/have almost spot on temps just by using nature.

My happiest vegging plants are at my kitchen window, atm at 50ppfd, higest i measured where about 100ppfd, while they will get more from time to time (seldon).
The light is rich in blue, high Kelvin as its mostly overcast, they could clearly take more light and are too lanky, otherwise not much to complain about. light is very soft, going through a strong diffusor.
View attachment 4616006View attachment 4616005
My 6500k veglight do also stress the plants, if i go too high with the watts or the plants come to near to the 2 cobs in the ceiling of the box.
And i dont need much watts to provoke that, 25W and i need to be carefull ,box is small and very low.
(I should pimp the box with some strips for a better distribution, just too lazy for it atm)

am also not unhappy with the buds who developing in my flower tent can only compare to other led setups with different color temps and 400W/250W HPS on a old magnetic ballast.
I can for sure say that i have buds developing in regions of the tent, corners etc. where i would only had larf with a 400W HPS, quality, size, density is also much better, but HPS times are decades ago.
Next round i will limit myself a bit more with the PPFD, when i went over 900 it was clear what will happen.
Click to expand...
cobshop that plant at your kitchen window is the perfect colour, stems and leaf. you can see it looks a bit thin/skinny due too low light levels but other than that its real happy. there has to be somthing in the spectrum you have posted above that is either lacking in certain common led spectrums? or there is something in the led spectrum that is not needed or to much for veg which is absent from the above spectrum?.

cant really be about leaf temp? i bet its not 28 degree at the window...
 
cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
These 2 x RQS Royal Gorrilla clones are in a 4ft x 4ft tent under 2ft strips, lm301b, deep red 660nm and far red 730nm diodes at ~ 270 watts.
900 umols/m2/s down the centre. Left side edge of plants get around 700 umols and right side of plants which get a boost from the 2 x R2T Boards, 3000K white uv, blue, red, far red at 75 watts each get ~ 800 umols.
That's pretty intense light compared to a 315 CMH but there doesn't appear to be any issues.
Temperatures in there at this time of year are ~ 25°C lights on ~ 15°C lights off.
Click to expand...
lookin great in there Mo.
not a single sign of stress.
btw. i hope i dont miss your side light color experiment.

youre using 270w + 2 times 75w or 270+75w?
345 or 420W?
i mean thats some reasonable wattage for a 4x4 in both cases.

if i see it right your leds are quite a bit further away then mine, its maybe a dit more indirect, softer therefore?
i read your tactics there, you dial up the light after switch and hang it high, let the plants grow in to the higher intensity.
maybe the most natural and least stressfull way, will prob go in that direction too (cant go as high as your led rack, tent is lower).

i would need to follow my own records here, but this time i hardly had any light stress before end of week 3 of flower, i was carefull with the light dial.
first when i went to 200W-210W main 3000K, 20W 660nm red, 30W 4000K buddies, 30W on the sides i get in to the real stressfull region.
i wont really count the buddies on the side, so 260W on top,
1mx1m, 26W a square feet, led fixture always beeing quite close
the tent is a 1mx1m, my other is a 3x3 which is inside 86x86cm in real.
that 260w gave me more then 900 at the tops.

From the feeling i would say 750ppfd everywhere very outest edges falling to 500 and theyre good in my case.
 
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cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
grotbags said:
cobshop that plant at your kitchen window is the perfect colour, stems and leaf. you can see it looks a bit thin/skinny due too low light levels but other than that its real happy. there has to be somthing in the spectrum you have posted above that is either lacking in certain common led spectrums? or there is something in the led spectrum that is not needed or to much for veg which is absent from the above spectrum?.

cant really be about leaf temp? i bet its not 28 degree at the window...
Click to expand...
haha, no, they had some warm days, but mostly they should hover around 25c, i have never measured tbh, outside is not more then 20c atm.
humidity isnt vpd alike also.
nutirents its the same mix i give all veg plants, some salts, EC a good "one", not overly precise there.
sometimes they just got runoff from the hempys in flower.
Color is absolute perfect thats true, not a single hint of anything.
They dont have to work hard, that will be one point for sure.
its not a real scientifical test at all, its just a try to get some picture what works for me here.
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
cobshopgrow said:
The light is rich in blue, high Kelvin as its mostly overcast,
Click to expand...
I stick a plant or 5 outdoors every year in the very slim chance of a good autumn weather, it never happens.... lol but the outdoors plants always have green stems whereas my indoor plants can get red stems and stalks at times.
I thought it was a P deficiency as the indoor area is cold but it is the same temperature outside.
I gave them the same nutrients.
I had a Sensi Star original that hated being under the leds but grew like a champion under the Sun. It looked a completely different plant.
The Sun spectrum has the secret sauce that's missing in white leds.
Dunno what it is though.
 
D

DukeFluke

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
These 2 x RQS Royal Gorrilla clones are in a 4ft x 4ft tent under 2ft strips, lm301b, deep red 660nm and far red 730nm diodes at ~ 270 watts.
900 umols/m2/s down the centre. Left side edge of plants get around 700 umols and right side of plants which get a boost from the 2 x R2T Boards, 3000K white uv, blue, red, far red at 75 watts each get ~ 800 umols.
That's pretty intense light compared to a 315 CMH but there doesn't appear to be any issues.
Temperatures in there at this time of year are ~ 25°C lights on ~ 15°C lights off.


View attachment 4616132View attachment 4616133View attachment 4616135View attachment 4616137
Click to expand...
Nice mate. What's your medium and feeding schedule/strength Mo?
 
Moflow

Moflow

Well-Known Member
DukeFluke said:
Nice mate. What's your medium and feeding schedule/strength Mo?
Click to expand...
The medium used on these ones is a mixture of Biobizz light mix, garden centre container compost, homemade compost, perlite and sand. It's a very light, free draining medium.
I'm doing feed, water, feed, water for now. Around every 2 to 3 days. 3- 4l each.
My tap water PH ~ 7.1 EC 0.2 - 0.3 then add nutes to raise EC to 1.0 - 1.2
I'm trying out the mega crop nutrient at the moment. Although I normally use Tomatorite.
I've also gave them a drop of mollases once in the watering.
One plant is in a 26l Airpot, the other plant is in a ~ 30l DIY airpot. I just drilled a load a holes halfway down and then another load near the bottom.
I'm not a fan of the Airpots as I'm handwatering. Probably better suited to auto watering but they were all i had left as all the other pots were in use.
Those plants are getting moved in a few days to another room for full flowering under allsorts of genuine, legit leds and chinese knockoff fixtures. They will bask in electromagnetic radiation :lol:
 
cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
Moflow said:
420 watts. 26.25 watts a sq ft in old money.
I think the lights are about 1ft - 300mm away, I'd need to check.
The strips are well spread out. 5 x strips over 1m
Click to expand...
i have just realized that my smartplug meters are may a bit of, so prob. a good idea to ad a 8% there... its may a 20w more in real.
280W, the 30W undercanopy lightning not taken in to account.
26W a square feet clearly gave me problems.
similar wattage but over more leds closer to the canopy and all leds heavily underdriven.
documented on page 21 here, where the problem starts and also how it looked before....
before the leafs where perfect.

(did the par map according the highest reading normal wattmeter i have, there i realised the smartplugs are of)

guess the RT boards are 19cm or such?
looks like you can take them twice till you reach some plant, had my light much lower then this always.
 
cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
btw i have no problems with red stems since i went with a higher P in the mix.
not as high as maxibloom, but not as low as megacrop as long the light isnt stressing too much, its fine stemwise.
 
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E

end_of_the_tunnel

Well-Known Member
cobshopgrow, thanks for posting the spectrometer reading from your windowsill sunlight. Thanks for letting us all discuss these interesting things here. So many posts, too many to like.

Grotbags, Rocket and others have brought up points. I might be reading more into comments and observations because of personal slant or bent.
I feel that lighting intensity, temps, humidity work together like some weird hybrid between a playground seesaw and merry-go-round. If the balance between elements are somehow out of wack, the thing won't spin as smoothly.
We can see beautiful examples of vegging under a variety of lights. Something that stands out, is plants appearing lush hues of green. 5K -3K, and even blurple. Some with very low intensity levels, we also tend to see larger fan leaves on the plants.
But flowering is a much more intense use case. The plant system is working in a different mode, levels of hormone are different. The calls on the plant system are different. We can up the lighting intensity levels, but that does not drive photosynthesis at peak in isolation. Everything else has to be in balance.

I think we underestimate spectrum. But I think we make it a scapegoat for other factors. People basically only knew HPS for years, and look at what a crap spectrum that was. As for sunlight, cobshopgrow has posted the spectrum a few posts above. Naturally flowering outdoors, the level of reds does increase in ratio overall for a 12 hour day compared to summer solstice as the weeks go by . But it is nowhere as dramatic as you will see if you go compare examples from Fluence and Gavita compared to the HLG 550R and 650R. https://growershouse.com/blog/led-grow-light-ultimate-comparison-review-using-light-laboratory-data/

I might be imagining it, but think someone posted, suggesting that we should be revisting light intensity levels. I would agree. Shoot me. But line your ducks up first. VPD temps/humidity, co2, etc. I don't see how we can blame our tools when there are others out there using the same ones.
 
cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
interessting to me is that the showen open space par rmap readings arent that high, sane, exept maybe the hlg 650R at 2ft.

to really utilize the power of strong leds you probably need some controlled enviroment,
the average joe dont have that so needs to find the sweet spot for his enviroment.

i know some other guys struggling with similar "problems".
 
Sade

Sade

Well-Known Member
Fucking love the spectrum you have going on. I am even thinking of incorporating some green. More research has discovered that it does pass through the canopy much better and plant does utilize it some.
 
S

sethimus

Well-Known Member
Sade said:
Fucking love the spectrum you have going on. I am even thinking of incorporating some green. More research has discovered that it does pass through the canopy much better and plant does utilize it some.
Click to expand...
white light has not enough green for you? ok...
 
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