Insect frass addition to supersoil?

Im adding some insect frass to my soil just for the heck of it and see how it goes, is that a good or bad thing? im a complete noob at organics, im pretty confident only good things can come out of it right?

Sunny Organics said:

Im adding some insect frass to my soil just for the heck of it and see how it goes, is that a good or bad thing? im a complete noob at organics, im pretty confident only good things can come out of it right?

Click to expand...

if you do it correctly, sure, only good things can come of it.
A lot of variables though.
how much? whats in your soil? etc.
if you are adding it as opposed to subbing something out, you may be running a lil too much nutrients.
but I don't like the supersoil recipe anyways

greasemonkeymann said:

if you do it correctly, sure, only good things can come of it.
A lot of variables though.
how much? whats in your soil? etc.
if you are adding it as opposed to subbing something out, you may be running a lil too much nutrients.
but I don't like the supersoil recipe anyways

Click to expand...

Im using a modified version of his which doesnt burn the plants, instead of 15LBs of Worm castings ill use 10LBs and add 2 cups of the insect frass, it's 2-2-2 and it's all insect poop too so i should be good? I also added 2oz of oyster shells just for the sake of it.

heres the recipe -
2 large bags roots natural and organic soil
15 pounds Earth Worm Castings
420g fish bone meal (down to earth 3-16-0)
420g bat guano (happy frog 0-5-0)
420g blood meal (down to earth 12-0-0)
80g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)

200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
200g azomite

100g sea kelp (algamin 1-0-2)
70g dolomite lime (30% cal 3% mg or 75/12)
50g alfalfa meal (down to earth 2.5-1-1)

20g humic acid powder (down to earth)
8g Epsom salt

/// thanks sidewig!! ///

Sunny Organics said:

Im using a modified version of his which doesnt burn the plants, instead of 15LBs of Worm castings ill use 10LBs and add 2 cups of the insect frass, it's 2-2-2 and it's all insect poop too so i should be good? I also added 2oz of oyster shells just for the sake of it.

heres the recipe -
2 large bags roots natural and organic soil
15 pounds Earth Worm Castings
420g fish bone meal (down to earth 3-16-0)
420g bat guano (happy frog 0-5-0)
420g blood meal (down to earth 12-0-0)
80g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)

200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
200g azomite

100g sea kelp (algamin 1-0-2)
70g dolomite lime (30% cal 3% mg or 75/12)
50g alfalfa meal (down to earth 2.5-1-1)

20g humic acid powder (down to earth)
8g Epsom salt

/// thanks sidewig!! ///

Click to expand...

sidewig?
uhm, huh?
and why on earth do you think you'll need a 0-0-50?
And insect frass would be more of a nutrient as opposed to a EWC.
But c'mon which unit of measurement are you going to use? Ya got grams and lbs and bags?
I'm not sure I can help you, I don't use the majority of the stuff that you are going to.
You don't need that much potassium.

greasemonkeymann said:

sidewig?
uhm, huh?
and why on earth do you think you'll need a 0-0-50?
And insect frass would be more of a nutrient as opposed to a EWC.
But c'mon which unit of measurement are you going to use? Ya got grams and lbs and bags?
I'm not sure I can help you, I don't use the majority of the stuff that you are going to.
You don't need that much potassium.

Click to expand...

Sidewig is the creater of this modified version. Accroding to him - " the potassium sulfate is obviously to give the soil a (what i feel was needed) potassium boost. sulfer is also a flavor enhancer. " He has had great results, with proof and buds completely fat and covered in trichomes. Just wanted to give his recipe my own little twist to it. The soil is done, and it will be used. It's just the start of a great organic future.

For the measurements it really doesn't matter because i have a scale(s)... i just converted grams to ounces.. not rocket science lol. Im not new to growing, im new to organics. And as for the difference btw insect frass and worm castings, both can be used as ferts, both are also insect poop ( insect frass is like guano/castings but a little better imo. ), both will be used in my teas along with other goodies. So brings me back to my question, why not??

Thats alotta stuff in your soil wow

Sunny Organics said:

Sidewig is the creater of this modified version. Accroding to him - " the potassium sulfate is obviously to give the soil a (what i feel was needed) potassium boost. sulfer is also a flavor enhancer. " He has had great results, with proof and buds completely fat and covered in trichomes. Just wanted to give his recipe my own little twist to it. The soil is done, and it will be used. It's just the start of a great organic future.

For the measurements it really doesn't matter because i have a scale(s)... i just converted grams to ounces.. not rocket science lol. Im not new to growing, im new to organics. And as for the difference btw insect frass and worm castings, both can be used as ferts, both are also insect poop ( insect frass is like guano/castings but a little better imo. ), both will be used in my teas along with other goodies. So brings me back to my question, why not??

Click to expand...

well sounds like you have it figured out.
I was referring to the "bag" when you said large bags of soil, (roots and organis soil) I understand that grams and ounces are simple to do the conversion, we are all potheads here, we learned that in highschool.
I hope you don't lock out any of your nutrients due to potassium OD.
Personally I would have used crab meal, kelp meal, and neem meal to get the potassium. A 0-0-50 fertilizer is simply too much.
To answer your question "why not?"
Well, if you do in fact think that EWC and insect frass are the same, cant help there. I'd take a good homemade EWC over insect frass 6 days a week and twice on sundays.
They are different, and the role they play in your organic soil is totally different.

Sunny Organics said:

Sidewig is the creater of this modified version. Accroding to him - " the potassium sulfate is obviously to give the soil a (what i feel was needed) potassium boost. sulfer is also a flavor enhancer. " He has had great results, with proof and buds completely fat and covered in trichomes. Just wanted to give his recipe my own little twist to it. The soil is done, and it will be used. It's just the start of a great organic future.

For the measurements it really doesn't matter because i have a scale(s)... i just converted grams to ounces.. not rocket science lol. Im not new to growing, im new to organics. And as for the difference btw insect frass and worm castings, both can be used as ferts, both are also insect poop ( insect frass is like guano/castings but a little better imo. ), both will be used in my teas along with other goodies. So brings me back to my question, why not??

Click to expand...

I don't want to bust balls, i'm just sayin you could make a better soil. But you already made it, so lets see what it can do.

Diabolical666 said:

Thats alotta stuff in your soil wow

Click to expand...

Yeah lots of stuff, he reduced them down from an original 560g to 420g so the risk of hurting my plants is even lower i guess? It's really not that much per cubic feet of soil, but who knows i will be using like quarter of it per 10 gallon pots. And for my teas i have even more stuff lol, i will be trying different teas for each plant and at the end ill stick to the best one. Let's see how it goes, ill make a thread in 2 months once i finish my current cycle. IM EXCITED!!!

Sunny Organics said:

Yeah lots of stuff, he reduced them down from an original 560g to 420g so the risk of hurting my plants is even lower i guess? It's really not that much per cubic feet of soil, but who knows i will be using like quarter of it per 10 gallon pots. And for my teas i have even more stuff lol, i will be trying different teas for each plant and at the end ill stick to the best one. Let's see how it goes, ill make a thread in 2 months once i finish my current cycle. IM EXCITED!!!

Click to expand...

just go EASY on those teas man, your soil is very fortified.
the most common mistake for excited beginners is "too much"
water, nutrients, teas, whatever.
remember these plants are simple to grow, more often than not the more you do, the less you reap.
I know that's counter-intuitive but its the way it is.
I also would recommend NOT layering your soil.
Supersoil and all it's methods aren't the greatest, it's just a sticky.
If you lurk the organic threads long enough you'll see that probably 80% of us are not using anything even remotely close to that recipe.
MUCH better results from neem, kelp, alfalfa, crab, insect, fish bone and kelp meals.
I would bet my reproductive organs that if you did a side by side, and at the end, a pepsi challenge you'd never go back to the supersoil mix again.

greasemonkeymann said:

well sounds like you have it figured out.
I was referring to the "bag" when you said large bags of soil, (roots and organis soil) I understand that grams and ounces are simple to do the conversion, we are all potheads here, we learned that in highschool.
I hope you don't lock out any of your nutrients due to potassium OD.
Personally I would have used crab meal, kelp meal, and neem meal to get the potassium. A 0-0-50 fertilizer is simply too much.
To answer your question "why not?"
Well, if you do in fact think that EWC and insect frass are the same, cant help there. I'd take a good homemade EWC over insect frass 6 days a week and twice on sundays.
They are different, and the role they play in your organic soil is totally different.

Click to expand...

I still don't have my own compost bin nor my worm bins done yet, everything with time!! And no worries man, BUST THEMMM UPPP haha. I will learn eventually, if i burn or get some sort of deficiency in my plants thats a good thing too because i will be able to solve all those problems on my own ( and with the help of you lovely people ) and learn from those mistakes. That's what im reaching for, experience!! But hopefully everything goes smooth. With time i will learn to substitute everything that i really need and what i dont need. But for now that's my starting soil. For that insect frass , i bought it on my own, i already know how those hydro store guys work. A lil expensive but im confident enough it can work in my soil.

greasemonkeymann said:

just go EASY on those teas man, your soil is very fortified.
the most common mistake for excited beginners is "too much"
water, nutrients, teas, whatever.
remember these plants are simple to grow, more often than not the more you do, the less you reap.
I know that's counter-intuitive but its the way it is.
I also would recommend NOT layering your soil.
Supersoil and all it's methods aren't the greatest, it's just a sticky.
If you lurk the organic threads long enough you'll see that probably 80% of us are not using anything even remotely close to that recipe.
MUCH better results from neem, kelp, alfalfa, crab, insect, fish bone and kelp meals.
I would bet my reproductive organs that if you did a side by side, and at the end, a pepsi challenge you'd never go back to the supersoil mix again.

Click to expand...

yeah man i know the supersoil is just to make you go out and spend your money, that's just my basic start up to organics. Anyways for my teas ill be using the following -

Veg teas -
Molasses
EWC
Alfalfa Meal
Alaskan Fish Fert
High N guano ( i have chicken manure and sea bird guano) 1 will be with the chicken manure the other with the sea bird.
A source of seaweed - was thinking nitrozyme or maxicrop
i also wanted to experiment with Liquid Karma in some of my teas

Flower-
EWC
molasses
Kelp Meal
Sea bird and High P Guano
Alaskan Fish Fert
Big Bloom
Some with Cal mg

All this won't be added to my teas in large amounts. What do you think?

Sunny Organics said:

Sidewig is the creater of this modified version. Accroding to him - " the potassium sulfate is obviously to give the soil a (what i feel was needed) potassium boost. sulfer is also a flavor enhancer. " He has had great results, with proof and buds completely fat and covered in trichomes. Just wanted to give his recipe my own little twist to it. The soil is done, and it will be used. It's just the start of a great organic future.

For the measurements it really doesn't matter because i have a scale(s)... i just converted grams to ounces.. not rocket science lol. Im not new to growing, im new to organics. And as for the difference btw insect frass and worm castings, both can be used as ferts, both are also insect poop ( insect frass is like guano/castings but a little better imo. ), both will be used in my teas along with other goodies. So brings me back to my question, why not??

Click to expand...

Looks pretty damn good homie
I would say EWC and IFrass (I.F. For short or IF from now on)
Are both huge and both very different

I'm considered "the frass guy" sometimes cause I advocate IF hard and dispel myths on it

I would say do both for sure but no need to mix it in you can try it on some plants and not on others and I bet you $20 you will love it..

It's mostly chitin and the auto immune responses are WICKED
Massive praying, turgid stems, natural pest control (not great for LST but its firmest for a few days only)

There is a whole plethora of other great bene's ..

A couple of our posts on it..
Pat is half right in that Frass is insect excrement. they are herbivore insects that eat vegetables, wheat bran and cactus.

But the interesting thing is that frass also has the insect exoskeletons in it, that's why it looks both gold and black. Very beneficial.

Insect chitin is the form used by plants in nature, whereas crustacean chitin is trapped in the calcified shell, needing to be boiled in potassium hydroxide to be freed!
****************

Nice thinking dude, interesting! (He was crushing bugs, making chitinase)

shit, I'm sure its gonna be awesome but i do wonder how it would compare..
...-insect frass has 100 Billion fungi spores per gram
...-and 6 trillion cfu/gm of microorganisms (including bacteria, protozoa and nematodes)

a note on insect chitin:
it stimulates the plants auto-immune system so it produces more:
terpenes, flavinoids, alkaloids, amino acids, and chitinase enzyme, not to mention root rot, mildew and nematode defence

so its a good look

Sunny Organics said:

yeah man i know the supersoil is just to make you go out and spend your money, that's just my basic start up to organics. Anyways for my teas ill be using the following -

Veg teas -
Molasses
EWC
Alfalfa Meal
Alaskan Fish Fert
High N guano ( i have chicken manure and sea bird guano) 1 will be with the chicken manure the other with the sea bird.
A source of seaweed - was thinking nitrozyme or maxicrop
i also wanted to experiment with Liquid Karma in some of my teas

Flower-
EWC
molasses
Kelp Meal
Sea bird and High P Guano
Alaskan Fish Fert
Big Bloom
Some with Cal mg

All this won't be added to my teas in large amounts. What do you think?

Click to expand...

With your recipe I would be tempted to:
-go water only

-Do Some basic teas of just EWC and BSM when needed (after drought stress, vaycay etc)
At ratios of 2.38 and 0.5% respectively,
36-40 hours

Cut the guano,
Maybe cut the fish hydro, since ur not soiless, bless you're flowering 7 week clones or something with no veg.. love the fish bone meal tho, ye boi!
And id just use the alfalfa once, during first 2 weeks of flower, for its TRIA
Although we add a cup to our mix per 18 gal

Edit, misread ur regimes..
I'd also cut (no disrespect mon)
the big bloom, too..i'd use aloe
The Cal mag (use 'ganic coco water)
And the guanos (less is more when you want that smooth, white ash at the end)
Butthats me, I'm going away from guanos and making my own EWC now

But I wouldn't worry about basic teas,
They have low NPK
They just have billions of microbes that'll break down the organic matter and feed the network

Either way, good on yuh
And best of luck..
Always welcome over at one or all of our threads too, mon
Link in siggy

Sunny Organics said:

Im using a modified version of his which doesnt burn the plants, instead of 15LBs of Worm castings ill use 10LBs and add 2 cups of the insect frass, it's 2-2-2 and it's all insect poop too so i should be good? I also added 2oz of oyster shells just for the sake of it.

heres the recipe -
2 large bags roots natural and organic soil
15 pounds Earth Worm Castings
420g fish bone meal (down to earth 3-16-0)
420g bat guano (happy frog 0-5-0)
420g blood meal (down to earth 12-0-0)
80g potassium sulfate (0-0-50)

200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
200g azomite

100g sea kelp (algamin 1-0-2)
70g dolomite lime (30% cal 3% mg or 75/12)
50g alfalfa meal (down to earth 2.5-1-1)

20g humic acid powder (down to earth)
8g Epsom salt

/// thanks sidewig!! ///

Click to expand...

And bruh,
.. myco fungi are only good for two weeks in soil so if roots won't get to edge of pots by then, then its bye bye fungi.

You probably know that but just helpin if not..

Most of us mask up, direct it onto moist roots directly at every up,pot, except maybe in our starter mixes (beer cups with cut down SS, thats a good place for extra myco)

Friends with benefits,



Frass with benefits..
Note the green, turgid, uber-perky petioles..

This was even more pronounced the watering before, but just the first pic I found..
Manual IF treatment (topdressing)

Also do teas, very effective but IF isn't water soluble, so I recc a tsp per plant and keep each dose separate.. Once when young may be plenty

Last post homes..
a little info puppa Tes dug up for da RIU bradahs, BIG UP!:
**************************************************************************************************
What is Insect Frass?
-Insect Frass is insect poop (like guano or castings)
-But unlike bats or birds, Insect Frass actually comes from plants.
-In all natural ecosystems (where there are no man-made chemical pesticides), insects feed on and digest vegetation, and give it right back to plants in the form of nature's perfect plant food.
-Plants benefit insects
- Insects benefit plants!


MAGNIFIED! (to the eye, it looks like sand, almost)

InsectFrass is100% Organic pldant food, and so much more…

-Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin (pronounced “Kite-in”).

-Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens.

-The EPA says that chitin and chitosan defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes.
-Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.

*Insect Frass is NOT a pesticide.

*Insect Frass is NOT a fungicide.

*Insect Frass will NOT put insects into your garden.

Give your plants all the benefits of Insect Frass, without the bugs!

DonTesla said:

With your recipe I would be tempted to:
-go water only

-Do Some basic teas of just EWC and BSM when needed (after drought stress, vaycay etc)
At ratios of 2.38 and 0.5% respectively,
36-40 hours

Cut the guano,
Maybe cut the fish hydro, since ur not soiless, bless you're flowering 7 week clones or something with no veg.. love the fish bone meal tho, ye boi!
And id just use the alfalfa once, during first 2 weeks of flower, for its TRIA
Although we add a cup to our mix per 18 gal

Edit, misread ur regimes..
I'd also cut (no disrespect mon)
the big bloom, too..i'd use aloe
The Cal mag (use 'ganic coco water)
And the guanos (less is more when you want that smooth, white ash at the end)
Butthats me, I'm going away from guanos and making my own EWC now

But I wouldn't worry about basic teas,
They have low NPK
They just have billions of microbes that'll break down the organic matter and feed the network

Either way, good on yuh
And best of luck..
Always welcome over at one or all of our threads too, mon
Link in siggy

Click to expand...

Very good info man on all your posts thanks a bunch. I've seen your threads with you and your buddy using insect frass they're epic man!! Can't wait to start growing organic.. I will cut off my guanos for sure, ill also get myself some aloe ( maybe start growing some right now?) and organic coconut water to experiment with as well!! Thanks yah mon haha.

Agreed great info. I didn't know that about the mycos! im using insect frass right now too.
What do you mean using a teaspoon separate per plant DonT?
Also what do you think about gro kashi?
Fish bone meal ay? what you think about fish meal?
You da mon Don

DonTesla said:

Friends with benefits,

View attachment 3370701

Frass with benefits..
Note the green, turgid, uber-perky petioles..

This was even more pronounced the watering before, but just the first pic I found..
Manual IF treatment (topdressing)

Also do teas, very effective but IF isn't water soluble, so I recc a tsp per plant and keep each dose separate.. Once when young may be plenty

Click to expand...

Wow those are some young perky fuggers! How old is she?