Clear the confusion for me

W

whatscooking

Well-Known Member
I have spent alot of time looking at post about the proper way to dry and cure and thought i understood but i see alot of back and forth about humidity.
I thought when you let humidity drop below 55% in the drying room and it stays there long enough to dry the center of a fat bud below 55 the bud has actually lost the ability to cure furthermore.
Please please dont flame me as i want to understand this. If i hang without running a humidifier within a short ammout of time, no way near the two week recommended time period to hang, buds get really dry and i thought that is a no no.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Two things happen in the hang dry - firstly they dry which now means you can smoke in a joint or bong and their low moisture level means they burn well. Secondly after they have finished drying and are smokable they will begin to develop their final taste and aroma and hence a longer period of hanging.

Now if bud dried too quick you probably force dried it (the hang dry still requires experience and fine tuning). If they overdried and went crunchy you need to grow better bud (shitly grown organic matter is imperfect and will loose too much moisture making it brittle and crumble)

Dried bud is just that - it is not moist or sticky or anything that implies moisture is left in enough levels to be noticable.

If you find the right place to hang dry and grow great bud you will easily observe bud turn from wet to dry and smokable and then after another short period gain a ton of taste and smell.

A lot dont appreciate that drying is 90% of the work and finished product, jarring and waiting six months only adds that little extra. A common misconception is that drying is only 10% and you can put not yet dried finished bud into sealed jars and get out something 90% better as if my magic.

I dont have much to say about humidity or the cure but drying has been done the same since jesus walked the earth and a long time before and very little mention to humidity but vast references to shade drying till it taste great smokes da bomb and sells at a high price :-)
 
W

whatscooking

Well-Known Member
I raised tobacco for several years, 20,000 lbs. per year. When harvesting we put six plants on a stick by spearing the plants opening up the plants main stalk which let the plants stalk dry out and hung it in barns. Usally took three months to dry it down.
There was no way to control humidity. Mother nature would dry down the toboacco untill the stems in the leaf were no longer fat with mosture. We had to wait to take the toboacco out of the barn, bulk ot down it was called. You had to wait until the leaves came into case or it was so dry the leaves would just crumble to dust. Was always a challenge to catch it just right to bulk it down. Had to wait for mother nature to allow the conditions to bring moisture for this to happen. Hard to do this time of year with temps going in and out of freezing.
Bottom line you cut then hung waited untill fat stems dried then waited untill it came into case so it could be handled then stripped it off the stalk, graded then off to market.
I have heard from old timers you need to bring our weed in and out of case a few times to get the cure, this process would drop bud moisture way way down. Then i read not to let bud dry below 55% or curing stops.
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
whatscooking said:
I thought when you let humidity drop below 55% in the drying room and it stays there long enough to dry the center of a fat bud below 55 the bud has actually lost the ability to cure furthermore.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to clear up that the relative humidity number of your drying room...is what is needed to achieve the desired actual humidity content of bud (which is what Kingrow was talking about).

I start drying at 65RH and lower it to near 55 to get storeable buds that smoke good.
JD
 
W

whatscooking

Well-Known Member
JohnDee said:
I believe you regarding curing. My guess is that everybody is in such a hurry to get bud to market...that they just don't want to take the time to do it.
JD
Click to expand...
So if i understand this correctly, dry it however your situation allows untill center of well grown fat bud is below 60 above and closer to 55 wheather that takes three days or three months. 55 with a meeter seems very dry, but i understand storage, corn had to be at 15%
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
whatscooking said:
So if i understand this correctly, dry it however your situation allows untill center of well grown fat bud is below 60 above and closer to 55 wheather that takes three days or three months. 55 with a meeter seems very dry, but i understand storage, corn had to be at 15%
Click to expand...
You wouldn't want your buds to take over 2 weeks to dry. Use dehuey as needed.
I've heard guys say the bud won't burn as well at 62 as it does with 55rh in drying room. And some of this is personal preference...
JD
 
W

whatscooking

Well-Known Member
Probably here is where i get lost, ow yes i understand you want to get the materal dried down somewhat quickly to thwart mold growth when first brought in, dew and heaven forbid rain are conditions to be avoided.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Tobacco is a leaf not bud and leaves dry to a lower moisture content hence why tobacco gets conditioned - i smoke rolling tobacco and left in the air it will dry down to crumbling levels.

Tobacco has an enzyme weed dosent which is why the leaves tirn brown and weed stays green.

You can just hang dry marijuana - moisture levels of bud should be similar to corn when dried aka 10-15%.

Lower humidity will see you go towards 10% and higer at 15% - hope you unserstand the humidity part as you can actually dry in a range of humidities.

So much confusion has led most to think bud moisture content when dry is the same as the humidity you dry in - false and again dried bud is 10-15% moisture and not 55% or whatever your humidity meter says when you look at it today.

Tobacco dosent hold as much moisture as mj bud, most is coated in chems or stored at a higher level to improve the smoke.

Great experiment is to buy some loose tobacco and leave it in the open and when it crumbles you know you just lost that stored in moisture :-)
 
Xs121

Xs121

Well-Known Member
The purpose of drying is to remove excess moisture content, to prevent the formation of mold during the curing process.

In a perfect/optimal drying environment
Temp: below 70F
RH: 55%-65%

The Why....it's all about Terpenes and Cannabinoid
1. Terpenes start to volatilize at near 70F
2. RH above 65, mold starts to grow/propagate
3. RH below 55, Trichomes becomes brittle(loss of potency)

So when drying we want as much as possible to preserve terpene and potency and to prevent the propagatioin of mold during storage.

In reality...only very few of us could achieve such an optimal environmental condition. We do what we can do. Basically there's no right answer as to how long should we dry, it all depends on your RH and Temperature.

Practically, you let it dry until it can be smoke without any further process...if you want to.

But...if you want to increase the potency and quality then it's necessary to have the product undergo a 'curing' process.

The Why....it's all about Terpenes and THC/CBG

Once you jar those buds in an airtight container, a chemical process begin, starting with....

1. Oxgen converting to CO2
2. CO2 chemically interacting with the decaying organic material...this process is called Carboxylate (ring a bell? A conjugate base of carboxylic acid)
3 Terpenes are extracted and reabsorbed and spread through out the organic matter
4. THCA is slowly converted to THC (which further degrade to cannabinol)

The whole process overall contribute to a better experience in terms of taste, smell, and potency.

This is why you try to avoid burping hence the necessity of properly dried product.

Believe it or not....entirely up to you
 
H

Hempire828

Well-Known Member
Xs121 said:
The purpose of drying is to remove excess moisture content, to prevent the formation of mold during the curing process.

In a perfect/optimal drying environment
Temp: below 70F
RH: 55%-65%

The Why....it's all about Terpenes and Cannabinoid
1. Terpenes start to volatilize at near 70F
2. RH above 65, mold starts to grow/propagate
3. RH below 55, Trichomes becomes brittle(loss of potency)

So when drying we want as much as possible to preserve terpene and potency and to prevent the propagatioin of mold during storage.

In reality...only very few of us could achieve such an optimal environmental condition. We do what we can do. Basically there's no right answer as to how long should we dry, it all depends on your RH and Temperature.

Practically, you let it dry until it can be smoke without any further process...if you want to.

But...if you want to increase the potency and quality then it's necessary to have the product undergo a 'curing' process.

The Why....it's all about Terpenes and THC/CBG

Once you jar those buds in an airtight container, a chemical process begin, starting with....

1. Oxgen converting to CO2
2. CO2 chemically interacting with the decaying organic material...this process is called Carboxylate (ring a bell? A conjugate base of carboxylic acid)
3 Terpenes are extracted and reabsorbed and spread through out the organic matter
4. THCA is slowly converted to THC (which further degrade to cannabinol)

The whole process overall contribute to a better experience in terms of taste, smell, and potency.

This is why you try to avoid burping hence the necessity of properly dried product.

Believe it or not....entirely up to you
Click to expand...
Can’t be explained any better!!
 
70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
Xs121 said:
The purpose of drying is to remove excess moisture content, to prevent the formation of mold during the curing process.

In a perfect/optimal drying environment
Temp: below 70F
RH: 55%-65%

The Why....it's all about Terpenes and Cannabinoid
1. Terpenes start to volatilize at near 70F
2. RH above 65, mold starts to grow/propagate
3. RH below 55, Trichomes becomes brittle(loss of potency)

So when drying we want as much as possible to preserve terpene and potency and to prevent the propagatioin of mold during storage.

In reality...only very few of us could achieve such an optimal environmental condition. We do what we can do. Basically there's no right answer as to how long should we dry, it all depends on your RH and Temperature.

Practically, you let it dry until it can be smoke without any further process...if you want to.

But...if you want to increase the potency and quality then it's necessary to have the product undergo a 'curing' process.

The Why....it's all about Terpenes and THC/CBG

Once you jar those buds in an airtight container, a chemical process begin, starting with....

1. Oxgen converting to CO2
2. CO2 chemically interacting with the decaying organic material...this process is called Carboxylate (ring a bell? A conjugate base of carboxylic acid)
3 Terpenes are extracted and reabsorbed and spread through out the organic matter
4. THCA is slowly converted to THC (which further degrade to cannabinol)

The whole process overall contribute to a better experience in terms of taste, smell, and potency.

This is why you try to avoid burping hence the necessity of properly dried product.

Believe it or not....entirely up to you
Click to expand...

That is a good explanation, but the curing part is the exact opposite of what everyone says in the curing threads. It is said that it was important to burp those jars because the buds need oxygen to break down the choraphyl. This is the first time I have heard that you don't want to burp the jars because you want the oxygen to convert to CO2. I guess I'll have to try a jar for the fun of it. It's definitely going to have to be lower than 62% humidity if you're going to seal the jar and not open it for a couple weeks. I think 55% might be safe.
 
Xs121

Xs121

Well-Known Member
70's natureboy said:
It is said that it was important to burp those jars because the buds need oxygen to break down the choraphyl
Click to expand...
That's a bunch of baloney, chlorophyll doesnt need oxygen to break down, chlorophyll starts to break down as soon it stop functioning. This is why you need to properly dry the buds before jarring to complete its breakdown.

What you really referring to is the hay smell caused by chlorophyll which a lot of growers encounter thus you need to air out that smell. You wont have this problem if your buds are properly dried.
 
70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
Xs121 said:
That's a bunch of baloney, chlorophyll doesnt need oxygen to break down, chlorophyll starts to break down as soon it stop functioning. This is why you need to properly dry the buds before jarring to complete its breakdown.

What you really referring to is the hay smell caused by chlorophyll which a lot of growers encounter thus you need to air out that smell. You wont have this problem if your buds are properly dried.
Click to expand...
Do you think it matters how tight the buds are packed in the jar? Should jars be full, or half full with an air space.?

Strength of smell is genetic for the most part. Some strains have a strong dank smell no matter what you do and other strains seem to have weak smell. I am trying to dial in the curing to coax some smell out of the weaker smelling varieties.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Xs121 said:
That's a bunch of baloney, chlorophyll doesnt need oxygen to break down, chlorophyll starts to break down as soon it stop functioning. This is why you need to properly dry the buds before jarring to complete its breakdown.

What you really referring to is the hay smell caused by chlorophyll which a lot of growers encounter thus you need to air out that smell. You wont have this problem if your buds are properly dried.
Click to expand...
Erm.. The aerobic bacteria which break down chlorophyll do indeed need oxygen to survive and function.
 
Xs121

Xs121

Well-Known Member
Guys...I dont know where you guys are learning this stuff.

First of all ,you guys are confusing the action of bacteria with 'decaying matter'. Yes the leaves will decay eventually. The decay has nothing to do with chlorophyll breakdown.

The breakdown of chlorophyll starts the moment it stop functioning (when it stop photosynthesis as in drying and the cells start dying) waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before any bacteria starts eating the organic matter.

But not gonna argue about this.
Here's a complete explanation of chlorophyll breakdown
 
Xs121

Xs121

Well-Known Member
As an aside not pertaining to curing and drying. Understanding the function of chlorophyll, how it is created, how it is destroyed, can really help your grow skill.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Xs121 said:
Guys...I dont know where you guys are learning this stuff.

First of all ,you guys are confusing the action of bacteria with 'decaying matter'. Yes the leaves will decay eventually. The decay has nothing to do with chlorophyll breakdown.

The breakdown of chlorophyll starts the moment it stop functioning (when it stop photosynthesis as in drying and the cells start dying) waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before any bacteria starts eating the organic matter.

But not gonna argue about this.
Here's a complete explanation of chlorophyll breakdown
Click to expand...
My info comes from a Dr who specializes in cannabis. His PhD is in Plant Biology with an emphasis in Environmental Horticulture. Do you have a PhD yourself?

Here you go..

Dr. Robb Blog #5: Drying and Curing Cannabis – Dark Heart Nursery

darkheartnursery.com darkheartnursery.com

The link you posted has to do with live plants, not dried plant material.
 
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