Best LED for 3x3 flowering

SchweeDubz said:

I don't think I disagree! Heh. Would you say the price is better than say timbergrowlights? I've been essentially researching this all day but I still have a lot more to do I think. I started googling their components separately but it seems like some of the pieces aren't readily available on say amazon or even cobkits. I am also still new to this (obviously) so I need to make sure I am buying the correct combination of supplies in terms of power, coverage, and spectrum. I have been watching growmou5 and will continue to do so!

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I think for the same component rapid led give better price not sure but with delivery they are better for me

SoOLED said:

for a 3x3 anything you want really, CHM is not a bad choice. you could veg to flower with a 3k bulb; or veg in 4k and switch to 3k in flower. they bulbs are really easy to change.
spec wise, CMH have UB/V's and far reds, even great greens. TBH, CMH is the best light to take photos under its like sunlight.

in a 3x3 I don't think you could go wrong with anything you hang in there, it would be more about min-maxing all the details.

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Well, I am going to use my Mars II for vegging, it seems fine enough, at least for now. I expect it to crap out eventually and maybe I'll replace it with a veg specific light then. But it creates good temps, and I don't see stretching. Very small light burn here and there. Airy nugs tho!

I don't expect the CMH being hard to change heh, it's more of that $80 cost twice a year that adds up.

Minmaxing is essentially what I want to do here. I would like to figure out the best setup for my 3x3 space (currently with 5 plants). Like I said, the Mars II isn't delivering dense enough buds so with this purchase of a new light, I want to make sure I am getting the ideal grow. The Vero 400w setup on timber is probably seeming the most appealing right now, but my main concern with that is if I need to supplement UV lighting, or any other spectrum issues. The G8 600 still seems appealing as well as it covers UV etc, but its $900 and still pulls 50w less than the Vero would.

@madininagyal I will try and do a price comparison with the Vero kit on rapidled and let you know if a. they have all the parts and b. the cost difference. Thanks!

$80 2x's a year for what?

bulbs? they are like rated for over 20k hours.

Philips, are the best IMHO.

any of those LED lights you mentioned would be excellent.

SchweeDubz said:

Of course, and I appreciate it, but you get what I am trying to say here right? If I listened to your suggestion alone, I'd be led to believe that there's no difference between LED and HID heating, which isn't true. You're stating a fact but omitting the more important part, in my opinion, about light output. I don't know the exact factually correct way to state it, but 1w of LED produces equal heat, but over twice as much light? The growmou5 video series mentions that HID is approx 35% light output, and 65% heat, while an efficient LED setup can reverse those numbers. That, to me, seems to be a far more important factor than understanding that 1w produces the same amount of heat...right?

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Most good LEDs on the mkt are about 50%.
DIY can do it. Not really necessary for a 3x3 IMO. But it's cool if you have the time.

My plan at the moment is to go with the Very29 400w kit from Timber, but I just want to make sure I am hitting the absolutely best I can in terms of spectrum. Google searches tell me that both UV and infared will help with growth, so I want to find out exactly what spectrum the Vero cobs offer. I am pretty sure I want the 3k, but I am not exactly sure what that means. Will I only be getting 1 specific wavelength, or is there a bell shaped curve of sorts? (Lots of red, little but some blue etc) How much infared and UV needs to be supplemented?

SchweeDubz said:

So is 300w of CMH going to produce the exact same amount of heat as a 300w LED? As in, I wouldn't need to change my venting situation whatsoever (assuming the wattage is the same)? There is also the factor of changing the bulbs. And what is it about CMH that makes it a better choice over LED? Is it the spectrum issue. Are there not LED equivalents that hit the necessary spectrum?

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The closest led fixture spectrum to a CMH is the Amare's. Full sunlike spectrum.
Only need to change the bulb once a year, that's constant growing.

Ok, but is there any way I can get exact #s or a graph to see how close I would be? I mean the Amare equipment is ultimately made up of other components right?

SchweeDubz said:

Ok...but that's it? A lot of these places offer free shipping, and I would probably rather pay for shipping cost to have a company w customer service etc than have to learn how to build my own light and all that. If there is a difference in quality though, that is another story. I still find it hard to believe that building a custom light would be that much better. I am watching these growmau5 video right now so I am learning a bit either way...but what exactly makes the DIY lights better quality wise?

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Timber 400 watt vero29 kit (DIY) = $519

Timber 400 watt vero29 framework (ready to hang) = $579

Best $60 I've spent in recent times as I am severely DIY-challenged.

SchweeDubz said:

Ok, but is there any way I can get exact #s or a graph to see how close I would be? I mean the Amare equipment is ultimately made up of other components right?

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This is the SE-450 - UVB w/ the lenses on. Here's their spectrum called The Equatorial spec.
Yeah, wh/ cobs & mono arrays.
All quality parts w/ a 5yr.
I gotta bunch.
Here's my 3 lil Ace of Spades x Astro-D sitting between 2 Pro-4's.

Heh, I don't disagree! The cost seems worth it, and its only another $15-20 for shipping the larger item. The only reason I am hesitant to do it is, again, spectrum. I need to get some more solid information on the Vero setup (and what it doesn't cover).

The Amare's do look very nice but it does look a little pricey for what it offers. It's ultimately made up of Cree chips, which could just as easily be bought separately and assembled, probably for cheaper. Time for more research!

Welcome to the wormhole Schwee......
I hadn't grown in years, so I felt like re-educating myself on the whole topic when I was asked to help a relative cultivate medicine in MI, so I looked into the LED angles...
6 months ago I had no Idea what a COB was, and knew very little of LED grow lighting options...
It became an obsession, to educate myself, and that's what I did, and that's what it looks like you are doing. Keep going. These forums are a wealth of knowledge. Hours of sifting through these threads, videos, datasheets, night after night. The more I learned, the more questions it created, a formula with ALL variable values, it was maddening! My space available became the constant, and from there it developed into some DIY COB projects and LED strip panels that are working far better than expected.... its been so, so rewarding.
It was easy to get caught up obsessing over things like spectrum and efficiency, Kelvin temps, and what have you, I eventually concluded I was "splitting hairs." Finding the balance between upfront cost, long term power consumption, and expected output/results, was a long process for me, but was well worth the effort.

So, to answer one of my own questions...a 3k kelvin light does appear to reach the majority of the spectrum, just like other lights, but in different ratios.

SchweeDubz said:

So, to answer one of my own questions...a 3k kelvin light does appear to reach the majority of the spectrum, just like other lights, but in different ratios.

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90cri 3000k or 80cri 3000k? Let me send you deeper down the wormhole digging for information

Hah, not sure yet. I was actually considering the Vero 29 400w setup on Timber. I don't know what the difference between 90 and 80 is (I don't even know what it means). However, either way, I am glad that a 3000k light is still hitting the full spectrum. I didn't know how it worked and I thought maybe 3000k was only emitting 1 specific wavelength (which would be bad obviously.)

I am currently trying to find some concrete research on how the kelvins actually affect growth. I am have convinced that the red light for flowering is a myth. I just do not see any side by side comparisons as of yet, but hopefully they exist.


Based on this image...it seems to be pure madness to consider anything besides 5000k, but clearly that is not the popular opinion.

SchweeDubz said:

Hah, not sure yet. I was actually considering the Vero 29 400w setup on Timber. I don't know what the difference between 90 and 80 is (I don't even know what it means). However, either way, I am glad that a 3000k light is still hitting the full spectrum. I didn't know how it worked and I thought maybe 3000k was only emitting 1 specific wavelength (which would be bad obviously.)

I am currently trying to find some concrete research on how the kelvins actually affect growth. I am have convinced that the red light for flowering is a myth. I just do not see any side by side comparisons as of yet, but hopefully they exist.

Based on this image...it seems to be pure madness to consider anything besides 5000k, but clearly that is not the popular opinion.

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5k spectrum will only be good for vegging green plants ,when they bud they want red light, that's why hps works so well for flowering and mh so good for vegging.

Vero 29 400w 3000k kits and Quantum boards are very powerful start at lowest settings!!

SchweeDubz said:

Based on this image...it seems to be pure madness to consider anything besides 5000k, but clearly that is not the popular opinion.

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I'm not sure what that image is showing but there's no growlight emitting notable levels of light past 1um nor would you want it too, and the spectral curves in that graph don't represent the relative light levels of LED or any other lamp. It kinda looks like relative levels of sunlight at different K temps. Research the Mcree curve and Emerson effect to understand why lots of light in the 580-700nm range is desirable. 80 CRI leds generally peak at around 600nm and 90 CRI around 630nm.

Ok, well assuming it's been tested and not a myth, (not that I actually think it is, but data always helps convince) would 3k be considered ideal? There is an option for 1750k for the Vero setup. Would 2 and 2 make the most sense? I have heard 2700k come up as well but I don't see it as an option on Timber.

It does look like Vero offers a 2700k cob. Perhaps Timber is able to offer it. But yeah, assuming I get 4 cobs total, what would be the best arrangement for blooming?

SchweeDubz said:

Ok, well assuming it's been tested and not a myth, (not that I actually think it is, but data always helps convince) would 3k be considered ideal? There is an option for 1750k for the Vero setup. Would 2 and 2 make the most sense? I have heard 2700k come up as well but I don't see it as an option on Timber.

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1750k and 3000k you're making me jealous!! You had the one up me lol!!